I've been in EMDR for nearly a year and a half now, and it's been transformative for me. We've focused on one of my negative core beliefs ("I'm not good enough") in a lot of events.
I identify with the possible pitfall you pointed out. I couldn't really believe that "I'm enough" (my positive cognition), in large part due to my religious upbringing's central tenant that I'm wicked at my core and can't choose right even when I want to (along with life experiences that reinforced that - if I could have been good enough, this negative thing wouldn't have happened, etc.). And as you said, it got better over time as I began to trust the process and my practitioner more, and as I felt safer and less hyper-vigilant due to working through some of these traumas.
One hurdle I had to overcome, which still comes up at times for me, is that I over-intellectualize everything. It was/is how I make myself feel safe in the world- by trying to understand things. But that isn't how EMDR works. There were a number of sessions where it was mostly me voicing how I didn't think it could work and getting tripped up by trying to do the exercise perfectly. I think being vulnerable and just admitting those things in the moment to my therapist helped, and actively reminding myself of how I'd seen progress from it previously / already, trying to reassure those parts of me which were resistant and trying to sabotage, as they were just trying to keep me safe the only way they knew how. I still wish I felt more when my therapist asks what sensations I notice in myself, at points during the sessions, because often it is just numbness or that I am not able to really tell. I am hoping that my ability to feel those things continues to grow.
I also realized I need to be gentle with myself in this process. I tried going into it too fast and too hard, initially, and there was a point after one session where I got so overwhelmed that I was ready to abandon EMDR and even therapy altogether (why do this if it is making life worse and amplifying these negative things?). But... I think that happened in large part because I was laying impossibly high expectations on myself and also not just being open to my therapist about my doing that. Once I did, by telling her how I was just done with EMDR and about ready to quit therapy entirely, things got better and I basically regained faith in my therapist and the process, by how she responded and adjusted things. It's been much smoother since.
I'd love to do EMDR with a specific focus on religious trauma. It has come up _a lot_ in my process so far. I'm curious what treatment specifically for religious trauma would look like.
Lastly, thank you for doing this publication - I always look forward to reading your posts when I see the email notifications come up for them. I hope you get a bunch of people signing up for paid subscriptions.
Joel, I appreciate so much you sharing about your process - with EMDR specifically, therapy in general, and how much you're trying to practice more kindness and gentleness towards yourself! Sounds like you have a great therapist and you are also really committed to the work of healing. I totally get the temptation to over-intellectualize (it's definitely a survival strategy!). Some of my life experiences - like going through grad school for counseling and doing mandatory counseling as part of that program - have helped me break down that tendency, at least in certain areas. Trusting the process is a really big thing - and that openness with others (e.g. therapist, or anyone) is really hard to do but changes so much! (haha I say this as one who doesn't always practice this herself...)
I'm also really glad that you are enjoying this publication. Thanks for being a supporter!!
Christine, thanks to you and your readers for some great thoughts and comments. I have done EMDR off and on in therapy and have found it very helpful and healing. It is especially effective for me when I can’t seem to access my emotions or memories about a topic.
In my case we had to learn to stop about 10 minutes before the end of sessions and do a therapist-guided meditation to a safe and calming place so my emotions could subside and I could compose myself before leaving.
In The Body Keeps the Score (excellent book on trauma), Bessel Van der Kolk speculates EMDR may emulate REM sleep during which our mind reviews and works out problems. But with EMDR our conscious mind can help with the process in a way that it can’t while we sleep.
As an aside, I can really see the deep connection between religious and childhood trauma for those raised in church. For me, painful emotions arising from religion came later in life when I chose to go to church, and perhaps because it was something I did to myself by choice, I seem to have found letting go of religious trauma and harmful beliefs easier than what you and many of your other readers have shared. Not that letting go of religious guilt, shame, anxiety, fear of hell etc. were trivial for me. They did take significant time and processing to let go of. But I am guessing my religious trauma as an adult was less damaging and more easily overcome than that of those who were traumatized as children.
That's great to know about your experiences! Glad that it felt like you could be "contained" (so to speak) enough at the end of sessions with the meditation exercises, and pick back up again as needed the next time. Those sessions can be so intense!
I agree and really think that the age of introduction to high-control religion can have a big effect on how profoundly it impacts you. And whether the religion is mediated by parental units, or whether maybe you go to a really conservative church but your parents are much chiller and gentler - also makes a big difference. This is stuff I'd be so interested in studying/researching, if I were on a slightly different path in life... maybe one day!
Yes, it’s surprising how intense the emotions can get!
Don’t underestimate the significance of your work in this field, Christine. I think you already are contributing to the study and research on this topic informally and several years hence, you will have amassed a significant volume of raw data in the form of articles and responses. When your audience gets big enough, you could even survey us repeatedly for more detailed information. I really think you are doing important work!
I’ve experienced emdr for myself and my child - we’ve both had positive experiences. Mine wasn’t specifically religious either, but I could see it being really helpful in that area. My experience was that it took the memory from a scary 3-D movie to a paper cut out! It was amazing how much it removed the charge and fear for me. I also processed a memory around purity culture and was able to replace some really fear-based thoughts with much more sex-positive thoughts! My kiddo has been processing one specific memory that has been giving her a ton of separation anxiety and the results haven’t been as immediate, but it has helped. But omg I want to ask you about your fear of puking because she has that too and I’m at my wits end!!
I like that - a scary 3D movie to a paper cut out -- exactly!! (I mean I know in theory that's what it is supposed to do, and I'm excited to keep digging in further!). Ooh good to know you were able to use this around purity culture specifically. That's really hopeful!
Ugh I'm so sorry for you and your kid!! I deeply empathize with her, and for you too being at your wit's end - not easy to manage such intense anxiety in your child. I don't know if this helps or hurts but I discovered that in the specific memory I was processing, I was seeming to process parental reaction around a specific childhood meltdown around my brother's carsickness. But I feel like I still don't know the actual origin of the phobia... which I'd like to try and tackle... Anyway, I basically feel terrible that I have this irrational, very intense anxiety that has impacted so much of my life (like I questioned whether I wanted to have kids because obviously, they're going to get sick.) I know the "gold standard" treatment for phobias is exposure-based therapy but that also sounds awful to have to do myself. EMDR feels a hella lot gentler. I'd be curious if your daughter can identify what she's afraid of, or what she believes would happen??? (even as an adult it's hard to put my finger on it, but that would give the EMDR a little place to start if she can figure that out!) Lots of non-germy hugs to her, though!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. She had one bad experience on vacation last year and that seems to be the memory they are reprocessing, but now it’s also morphing into general health anxiety...broken bones, fainting, ...last week she was afraid she had a concussion after she learned about them in gym class 🤪 but puking is still the biggest fear. I think it’s just the unpredictability of it and the out-of-control feeling, which I get! It is not comfortable and it’s not fun feeling like your body is out of your control. We just found a new CBT therapist and my kid really likes her so I’m hopeful we’ll be learning some new skills to employ 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Christine, thank you for this description of EMDR and for sharing just a little about your journey. You are **not** alone! And your work matters. I am a new (paid) subscriber, but have greatly benefited so far from reading what you write and appreciate you a great deal.
I am a religious trauma survivor who got sent to a church run by doctrinaire sectarian extremists who preached a message of sin, separation, shame, blame, "free will" [sic] and a supposedly deserved punishment of never-ending conscious torment in hell for any and all who refused to love, and submit themselves fully and authentically to the Christian deity.
I was the result of an unplanned pregnancy and raised by harsh, emotionally distant fundamentalist Protestant Christian parents who shamed, blamed and beat me. But the abuse and neglect were at their worst surrounding issues of emesis. The worst shamings and outpouring of rage occurred on the three or four occasions when, while still a tiny child, I failed to be able to reach the toilet in time with undesirable output and thus ended up defiling the house. To this day, I live with a crippling case of emetophobia. I can get triggered by movies, TV shows, that terrible green-faced emoji with horrendous content pouring from its mouth, hearing someone else's stomach rumble, smelling certain types of cheeses or even hearing people yards and yards away from me coughing.
I began doing EMDR specifically for emetophobia back in summer of 2020 and even though I have sometimes felt misunderstood or not "seen" by my EMDR therapist due to how (through no fault of her own) she just can't attune to how, sorry, *religious* trauma has some notable differences from non-religious trauma, I have benefited from the sessions. There have been sessions in which I have gone over the edge into a vortex of terror, other sessions that have left me so wiped out and dizzy and having such intense auditory, olfactory and visual hallucinations that I wondered if I would ever recover, and one session after which my body temperature dropped so severely in the middle of the night during a flashback that I thought I was going to have to go to the emergency room to be treated for hypothermia.
But I feel as though I am getting more capacity to hold onto myself when powerful negative emotions are coursing through me, and that I am getting more clarity. I hope you'll find you benefit from EMDR. If your experience turns out to be anything like mine, the EMDR can be quite helpful even though it can at times be terrifying and/or exhausting.
I send you much, much care, concern, and completely secular but very emotionally warm vibes of healing. Be well. You are enough as-is, no matter what the worshipers of any unreasonably punitive and shaming imaginary deities might say to the contrary! :)
Thank you, and thank you for sharing some of your journey! You've been through some really horrible things and your recovery journey thus far also sounds like a wild ride, but you're somehow managing to hang on.
Also nice to not be alone in the emetophobia thing! I agree about your triggers, like the emoji, people coughing, stupid tv shows - or stuff like food eating contests are enough to send me running the other direction. I'm thinking I want to find an EMDR practitioner to work on some of these things, beyond just my practicum experiences in training (the brief-ish times when I'm in the client's chair for my therapist partner!)
And yes, religious trauma is similar but also in many ways so different from non-religious trauma, in a way that seems difficult for people who haven't been there themselves to understand.
I take in your secular but emotionally warm vibes of healing, and return them in your direction as well! Much care to you!
EMDR is an amazing intervention! I have yet to use it for religious trauma. Identifying positive cognitions can be difficult for sure. Much tougher than identifying the negative ones. I'm also finding I need to book a double session to use it - - my usual 45-50 minute sessions don't work well in my opinion, but I have definitely seen some striking recoveries with my patients. Maybe you could develop a training geared specifically for religious trauma? As you've said, unpacking the strictness from both family and church can be challenging. I hope to hear more about your journey with this modality!
Ooh, good to hear you're a big fan! I'm just dipping my toe in but I kept seeing in so many of my sessions this week of exact spots we could use EMDR, and began introducing it to people. But I do wonder about the time limits! That's why the "container" exists though, I guess. But it feels so much better to come to some measure of completion within a specific session.
That would be really neat to develop a training specifically in that intersection! Thanks for the idea!
Oh my goodness, this post was amazing! I'm currently in EMDR, and it has been and continues to be incredibly healing for me in my journey with religious trauma. You described the process so well. Thank you!
That's great to hear you're in EMDR and really finding it meaningful and healing - especially in regards to religious trauma! (also glad that you feel like I described the process well!)
Christine, are you familiar with the Child Trauma Academy’s Seven Slide Series? I think it’s very helpful in illustrating how trauma memories are stored, which is related to how bilateral stimulation of the brain can help.
Sorry this took so long to reply! I had to look it up and watch it which I finally did today. I’ve learned similar things but not that exact Seven Slide Series. But it helps make so much sense of our brain and how/why we respond to things the way we do (and why we get “stuck” when it doesn’t process right!).
I've been in EMDR for nearly a year and a half now, and it's been transformative for me. We've focused on one of my negative core beliefs ("I'm not good enough") in a lot of events.
I identify with the possible pitfall you pointed out. I couldn't really believe that "I'm enough" (my positive cognition), in large part due to my religious upbringing's central tenant that I'm wicked at my core and can't choose right even when I want to (along with life experiences that reinforced that - if I could have been good enough, this negative thing wouldn't have happened, etc.). And as you said, it got better over time as I began to trust the process and my practitioner more, and as I felt safer and less hyper-vigilant due to working through some of these traumas.
One hurdle I had to overcome, which still comes up at times for me, is that I over-intellectualize everything. It was/is how I make myself feel safe in the world- by trying to understand things. But that isn't how EMDR works. There were a number of sessions where it was mostly me voicing how I didn't think it could work and getting tripped up by trying to do the exercise perfectly. I think being vulnerable and just admitting those things in the moment to my therapist helped, and actively reminding myself of how I'd seen progress from it previously / already, trying to reassure those parts of me which were resistant and trying to sabotage, as they were just trying to keep me safe the only way they knew how. I still wish I felt more when my therapist asks what sensations I notice in myself, at points during the sessions, because often it is just numbness or that I am not able to really tell. I am hoping that my ability to feel those things continues to grow.
I also realized I need to be gentle with myself in this process. I tried going into it too fast and too hard, initially, and there was a point after one session where I got so overwhelmed that I was ready to abandon EMDR and even therapy altogether (why do this if it is making life worse and amplifying these negative things?). But... I think that happened in large part because I was laying impossibly high expectations on myself and also not just being open to my therapist about my doing that. Once I did, by telling her how I was just done with EMDR and about ready to quit therapy entirely, things got better and I basically regained faith in my therapist and the process, by how she responded and adjusted things. It's been much smoother since.
I'd love to do EMDR with a specific focus on religious trauma. It has come up _a lot_ in my process so far. I'm curious what treatment specifically for religious trauma would look like.
Lastly, thank you for doing this publication - I always look forward to reading your posts when I see the email notifications come up for them. I hope you get a bunch of people signing up for paid subscriptions.
Joel, I appreciate so much you sharing about your process - with EMDR specifically, therapy in general, and how much you're trying to practice more kindness and gentleness towards yourself! Sounds like you have a great therapist and you are also really committed to the work of healing. I totally get the temptation to over-intellectualize (it's definitely a survival strategy!). Some of my life experiences - like going through grad school for counseling and doing mandatory counseling as part of that program - have helped me break down that tendency, at least in certain areas. Trusting the process is a really big thing - and that openness with others (e.g. therapist, or anyone) is really hard to do but changes so much! (haha I say this as one who doesn't always practice this herself...)
I'm also really glad that you are enjoying this publication. Thanks for being a supporter!!
Christine, thanks to you and your readers for some great thoughts and comments. I have done EMDR off and on in therapy and have found it very helpful and healing. It is especially effective for me when I can’t seem to access my emotions or memories about a topic.
In my case we had to learn to stop about 10 minutes before the end of sessions and do a therapist-guided meditation to a safe and calming place so my emotions could subside and I could compose myself before leaving.
In The Body Keeps the Score (excellent book on trauma), Bessel Van der Kolk speculates EMDR may emulate REM sleep during which our mind reviews and works out problems. But with EMDR our conscious mind can help with the process in a way that it can’t while we sleep.
As an aside, I can really see the deep connection between religious and childhood trauma for those raised in church. For me, painful emotions arising from religion came later in life when I chose to go to church, and perhaps because it was something I did to myself by choice, I seem to have found letting go of religious trauma and harmful beliefs easier than what you and many of your other readers have shared. Not that letting go of religious guilt, shame, anxiety, fear of hell etc. were trivial for me. They did take significant time and processing to let go of. But I am guessing my religious trauma as an adult was less damaging and more easily overcome than that of those who were traumatized as children.
That's great to know about your experiences! Glad that it felt like you could be "contained" (so to speak) enough at the end of sessions with the meditation exercises, and pick back up again as needed the next time. Those sessions can be so intense!
I agree and really think that the age of introduction to high-control religion can have a big effect on how profoundly it impacts you. And whether the religion is mediated by parental units, or whether maybe you go to a really conservative church but your parents are much chiller and gentler - also makes a big difference. This is stuff I'd be so interested in studying/researching, if I were on a slightly different path in life... maybe one day!
Yes, it’s surprising how intense the emotions can get!
Don’t underestimate the significance of your work in this field, Christine. I think you already are contributing to the study and research on this topic informally and several years hence, you will have amassed a significant volume of raw data in the form of articles and responses. When your audience gets big enough, you could even survey us repeatedly for more detailed information. I really think you are doing important work!
"I receive that!" as my Pentecostal friend would always say! Seriously though that sounds really amazing :) Thanks for always being an encourager!
I love that you found what you needed to feel safe and calm after a session. That’s beautiful. And that’s so interesting about REM sleep!
I’ve experienced emdr for myself and my child - we’ve both had positive experiences. Mine wasn’t specifically religious either, but I could see it being really helpful in that area. My experience was that it took the memory from a scary 3-D movie to a paper cut out! It was amazing how much it removed the charge and fear for me. I also processed a memory around purity culture and was able to replace some really fear-based thoughts with much more sex-positive thoughts! My kiddo has been processing one specific memory that has been giving her a ton of separation anxiety and the results haven’t been as immediate, but it has helped. But omg I want to ask you about your fear of puking because she has that too and I’m at my wits end!!
I like that - a scary 3D movie to a paper cut out -- exactly!! (I mean I know in theory that's what it is supposed to do, and I'm excited to keep digging in further!). Ooh good to know you were able to use this around purity culture specifically. That's really hopeful!
Ugh I'm so sorry for you and your kid!! I deeply empathize with her, and for you too being at your wit's end - not easy to manage such intense anxiety in your child. I don't know if this helps or hurts but I discovered that in the specific memory I was processing, I was seeming to process parental reaction around a specific childhood meltdown around my brother's carsickness. But I feel like I still don't know the actual origin of the phobia... which I'd like to try and tackle... Anyway, I basically feel terrible that I have this irrational, very intense anxiety that has impacted so much of my life (like I questioned whether I wanted to have kids because obviously, they're going to get sick.) I know the "gold standard" treatment for phobias is exposure-based therapy but that also sounds awful to have to do myself. EMDR feels a hella lot gentler. I'd be curious if your daughter can identify what she's afraid of, or what she believes would happen??? (even as an adult it's hard to put my finger on it, but that would give the EMDR a little place to start if she can figure that out!) Lots of non-germy hugs to her, though!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. She had one bad experience on vacation last year and that seems to be the memory they are reprocessing, but now it’s also morphing into general health anxiety...broken bones, fainting, ...last week she was afraid she had a concussion after she learned about them in gym class 🤪 but puking is still the biggest fear. I think it’s just the unpredictability of it and the out-of-control feeling, which I get! It is not comfortable and it’s not fun feeling like your body is out of your control. We just found a new CBT therapist and my kid really likes her so I’m hopeful we’ll be learning some new skills to employ 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Christine, thank you for this description of EMDR and for sharing just a little about your journey. You are **not** alone! And your work matters. I am a new (paid) subscriber, but have greatly benefited so far from reading what you write and appreciate you a great deal.
I am a religious trauma survivor who got sent to a church run by doctrinaire sectarian extremists who preached a message of sin, separation, shame, blame, "free will" [sic] and a supposedly deserved punishment of never-ending conscious torment in hell for any and all who refused to love, and submit themselves fully and authentically to the Christian deity.
I was the result of an unplanned pregnancy and raised by harsh, emotionally distant fundamentalist Protestant Christian parents who shamed, blamed and beat me. But the abuse and neglect were at their worst surrounding issues of emesis. The worst shamings and outpouring of rage occurred on the three or four occasions when, while still a tiny child, I failed to be able to reach the toilet in time with undesirable output and thus ended up defiling the house. To this day, I live with a crippling case of emetophobia. I can get triggered by movies, TV shows, that terrible green-faced emoji with horrendous content pouring from its mouth, hearing someone else's stomach rumble, smelling certain types of cheeses or even hearing people yards and yards away from me coughing.
I began doing EMDR specifically for emetophobia back in summer of 2020 and even though I have sometimes felt misunderstood or not "seen" by my EMDR therapist due to how (through no fault of her own) she just can't attune to how, sorry, *religious* trauma has some notable differences from non-religious trauma, I have benefited from the sessions. There have been sessions in which I have gone over the edge into a vortex of terror, other sessions that have left me so wiped out and dizzy and having such intense auditory, olfactory and visual hallucinations that I wondered if I would ever recover, and one session after which my body temperature dropped so severely in the middle of the night during a flashback that I thought I was going to have to go to the emergency room to be treated for hypothermia.
But I feel as though I am getting more capacity to hold onto myself when powerful negative emotions are coursing through me, and that I am getting more clarity. I hope you'll find you benefit from EMDR. If your experience turns out to be anything like mine, the EMDR can be quite helpful even though it can at times be terrifying and/or exhausting.
I send you much, much care, concern, and completely secular but very emotionally warm vibes of healing. Be well. You are enough as-is, no matter what the worshipers of any unreasonably punitive and shaming imaginary deities might say to the contrary! :)
Thank you, and thank you for sharing some of your journey! You've been through some really horrible things and your recovery journey thus far also sounds like a wild ride, but you're somehow managing to hang on.
Also nice to not be alone in the emetophobia thing! I agree about your triggers, like the emoji, people coughing, stupid tv shows - or stuff like food eating contests are enough to send me running the other direction. I'm thinking I want to find an EMDR practitioner to work on some of these things, beyond just my practicum experiences in training (the brief-ish times when I'm in the client's chair for my therapist partner!)
And yes, religious trauma is similar but also in many ways so different from non-religious trauma, in a way that seems difficult for people who haven't been there themselves to understand.
I take in your secular but emotionally warm vibes of healing, and return them in your direction as well! Much care to you!
EMDR is an amazing intervention! I have yet to use it for religious trauma. Identifying positive cognitions can be difficult for sure. Much tougher than identifying the negative ones. I'm also finding I need to book a double session to use it - - my usual 45-50 minute sessions don't work well in my opinion, but I have definitely seen some striking recoveries with my patients. Maybe you could develop a training geared specifically for religious trauma? As you've said, unpacking the strictness from both family and church can be challenging. I hope to hear more about your journey with this modality!
Ooh, good to hear you're a big fan! I'm just dipping my toe in but I kept seeing in so many of my sessions this week of exact spots we could use EMDR, and began introducing it to people. But I do wonder about the time limits! That's why the "container" exists though, I guess. But it feels so much better to come to some measure of completion within a specific session.
That would be really neat to develop a training specifically in that intersection! Thanks for the idea!
Oh my goodness, this post was amazing! I'm currently in EMDR, and it has been and continues to be incredibly healing for me in my journey with religious trauma. You described the process so well. Thank you!
That's great to hear you're in EMDR and really finding it meaningful and healing - especially in regards to religious trauma! (also glad that you feel like I described the process well!)
This was great! Thank you! I’m going to send it to a friend who was just asking me about my experience with EMDR.
Christine, are you familiar with the Child Trauma Academy’s Seven Slide Series? I think it’s very helpful in illustrating how trauma memories are stored, which is related to how bilateral stimulation of the brain can help.
Sorry this took so long to reply! I had to look it up and watch it which I finally did today. I’ve learned similar things but not that exact Seven Slide Series. But it helps make so much sense of our brain and how/why we respond to things the way we do (and why we get “stuck” when it doesn’t process right!).