"I found that I didn’t want to be associated with the things Christianity had come to mean. But even before that, I stopped being able to believe the things that would make one a Christian… and since I had been taught since I was a child that it was belief that made you a Christian, well, I couldn’t be one anymore. (that’s a post for another day, I suppose). I can love a lot of elements of following Jesus, and I can love a lot of people who follow Jesus. But to identify with the title of Christian right now feels like a too-tight shoe I put on the wrong foot and am trying to run a race in."
This is exactly why I stopped identifying as Christian. Disentangling for me in the past 5 years or so has meant slow and cautious exposure to elements of Christianity to see if I could tolerate them. The group singing I love often takes place in churches, so being in them was the first step toward tolerance. And over time I've become more comfortable with listening to others talking about their faith journeys. At the same time, while outwardly I may seem composed, there is a red light pulsating inside me saying STOP! GO NO FURTHER. I listen, but I don't share back. Identifying as Jewish helps put the kibosh on talking about my journey with Christianity, but that doesn't feel totally honest either. "Oh what a tangled web we weave . . . " and I'm not trying to deceive, but that's what's happening. Guess I need one of those short, succinct sentences I help my patients uncover when they've identified a boundary. I'm so glad to have this space to open up in.
Thank you for sharing!! I suppose you're doing some gradual exposure therapy for yourself, huh? ;) Tangled webs indeed. You make me think of when I used to work at a Christian counseling center and clients would ask me outright if I was a Christian and I'd attempt to dodge the question: "I was raised that way" or talk about my pastor husband, but internally my panic button was going off. (this is part of why I quit that job and opened my own practice instead! Which has also allowed me to come to more internal clarity about my yes/no status as Christian.)
If you figure out that succinct boundary sentence... please update us!
Deeply, deeply relatable post! For me this part really resonated: "What I want to do is try to navigate the tender line of deconstructing from religion that has actively harmed so many people – while also acknowledging that religion has been meaningful for lots of people, including people groups evangelicalism has actively oppressed, such as people of color and women – while ALSO recognizing how supremacist systems show up even in spaces that oppressed groups choose to belong to. Easy peasy, right?" It's such a journey, and I think my upbringing in fundamentalism isn't making it easy to acknowledge that the journey is about listening to and walking in solidarity with others, seeking to not do harm but acknowledging that I will at some point need to do repair for the harm I will cause sometimes (despite my best efforts). It's so hard for my brain to accept that the journey is not really about finding the right way to be (or not be) religious/Christian. But, my goodness, do I want a "right" way to be!
Ohhh I get that feeling of the "right" way to be! Even when I'm not doing that in religion, I'm doing it somewhere else! 🤪 Also, thinking about how / when to do repair for harm caused is a really important but also hard question. This is only one kind of repair / reparation, but I love how Marla Taviano has a poem (and a practice!) about her former tithing practices making it easy to transition to mini-racial reparations!
Disentangling is... impossible. Like you said, I try to draw a clear line between the teachings of Jesus, and the actions of the institutional church or just bad individuals/groups throughout history. But as much as you just focus on the person of Jesus, your life is still taking place within the systems of the world, which have largely been built by people who wielded the name of Jesus like a weapon, to oppress others under their power and control. I'm trying to go back to the essentials of the faith... the "early church" and all... but it's so hard, realizing that even your ideas of what the essentials of the faith should be, are still influenced by the indoctrination of your childhood. All I can do is accept that it's impossible to figure everything out, and grow comfortable with not having all the answers.
And also... this: "Since I had been taught since I was a child that it was belief that made you a Christian, well, I couldn’t be one anymore. (that’s a post for another day, I suppose)." Yes... I am realizing more and more that it can't be the ideas in our heads that "save" us or make us Christian. (Please write that post, haha)
It's so true! All of that. But yes even your "essentials" are tinted by the original indoctrination where it then feels like I have to think my way out of the first/automatic response. If I think my way to a new answer at all, or just get to a place of "well... not that."
I will definitely have to write that post! What I end up doing is writing my drafts in a word document then taking out enough stuff to get the post to 1200 words or less, which means that I have a paragraph about that future post hanging out in that word doc right now 😂
Very relatable. Half way through “white evangelical racism” - which I started yesterday after a brief conversation with my mom where she talked about the new Kelsey grammer movie that was sooo wooonderful (cough cough** you mean, revisionist history of the Jesus movement??) and that she would be visiting a (horrible) church this weekend because Eric Metaxas will be a guest speaker 😫😫 I’m listening to this book and praying for wisdom in how to express my concerns to her...if I express them at all.
Oh yay glad you started it!! Also, how am I so out of touch that I didn't even know about this movie? So I had to go look it up. It's getting quite a bit of press and I don't know if I want to start digging in -- I may as well just trust your judgment of revisionist history of the Jesus movement! 😂
Oof that's really tough when your mom is telling you all these things she's excited about...man she's deep in it. I'm going to be doing an interview with Liz Charlotte Grant soon and we'll be talking about navigating family boundaries and stuff in regards to religious beliefs -- shoot me a question if you have something you want me to ask her!
I don’t think I would’ve heard if not for her. Although DL Mayfield may be working on something about it soon. Her IG stories seemed to be on the same wavelength. Oh man, I did a complete deep dive & was giving my husband all the tea last night 😂😂 he was like “have you been reading Wikipedia all day” lol. 🤓
Looking forward to the interview! My main question is: how do I differentiate??? I just get sucked in so fast!
As you know, I wasn't brought in Evangelicalism but as a Catholic, which is a story for another day. But I applaud your efforts to get out from underneath what seems like an oppressive system. I know it must be because I see its effects in the adults in my church.
I have recently been really curious how if coming out from under strict Catholicism feels different than from strict evangelicalism? I wonder if there's differences because in evangelicalism, there's SO much emphasis on your personal salvation and relationship with Jesus that then there's a lot of internalized shame and guilt and more religious trauma. But maybe I just don't know enough religiously traumatized Catholics 😅🤷♀️
Catholics don't worry much about whether you're saved or not. If you're a Catholic, you're automatically saved. As long as you don't die with a mortal sin on your soul, you're good to go. And they don't worry about Jesus much, either. Same reason. It's the sin rules that are more important.
THIS: “...spirituality – based on the teachings of the person we know as Jesus Christ is going to be one that does not do harm to others, that stands up for the oppressed and marginalized, that extends grace and compassion to others, and that calls its followers to lead a more ethical, moral life.”
AND THIS: “I think of my seminary’s chapel with my Black fellow students singing gospel songs, swaying and clapping. I think of my Mennonite friends for whom nonviolence runs in their blood. I think of every church hanging a huge pride flag outside their walls. And I smile. And I believe in that.”
Christine, that’s a better sermon about what Christianity ought to be, and truer to the gospel, than anything I’ve ever heard from any pulpit.
"I found that I didn’t want to be associated with the things Christianity had come to mean. But even before that, I stopped being able to believe the things that would make one a Christian… and since I had been taught since I was a child that it was belief that made you a Christian, well, I couldn’t be one anymore. (that’s a post for another day, I suppose). I can love a lot of elements of following Jesus, and I can love a lot of people who follow Jesus. But to identify with the title of Christian right now feels like a too-tight shoe I put on the wrong foot and am trying to run a race in."
This is exactly why I stopped identifying as Christian. Disentangling for me in the past 5 years or so has meant slow and cautious exposure to elements of Christianity to see if I could tolerate them. The group singing I love often takes place in churches, so being in them was the first step toward tolerance. And over time I've become more comfortable with listening to others talking about their faith journeys. At the same time, while outwardly I may seem composed, there is a red light pulsating inside me saying STOP! GO NO FURTHER. I listen, but I don't share back. Identifying as Jewish helps put the kibosh on talking about my journey with Christianity, but that doesn't feel totally honest either. "Oh what a tangled web we weave . . . " and I'm not trying to deceive, but that's what's happening. Guess I need one of those short, succinct sentences I help my patients uncover when they've identified a boundary. I'm so glad to have this space to open up in.
Thank you for sharing!! I suppose you're doing some gradual exposure therapy for yourself, huh? ;) Tangled webs indeed. You make me think of when I used to work at a Christian counseling center and clients would ask me outright if I was a Christian and I'd attempt to dodge the question: "I was raised that way" or talk about my pastor husband, but internally my panic button was going off. (this is part of why I quit that job and opened my own practice instead! Which has also allowed me to come to more internal clarity about my yes/no status as Christian.)
If you figure out that succinct boundary sentence... please update us!
Deeply, deeply relatable post! For me this part really resonated: "What I want to do is try to navigate the tender line of deconstructing from religion that has actively harmed so many people – while also acknowledging that religion has been meaningful for lots of people, including people groups evangelicalism has actively oppressed, such as people of color and women – while ALSO recognizing how supremacist systems show up even in spaces that oppressed groups choose to belong to. Easy peasy, right?" It's such a journey, and I think my upbringing in fundamentalism isn't making it easy to acknowledge that the journey is about listening to and walking in solidarity with others, seeking to not do harm but acknowledging that I will at some point need to do repair for the harm I will cause sometimes (despite my best efforts). It's so hard for my brain to accept that the journey is not really about finding the right way to be (or not be) religious/Christian. But, my goodness, do I want a "right" way to be!
Ohhh I get that feeling of the "right" way to be! Even when I'm not doing that in religion, I'm doing it somewhere else! 🤪 Also, thinking about how / when to do repair for harm caused is a really important but also hard question. This is only one kind of repair / reparation, but I love how Marla Taviano has a poem (and a practice!) about her former tithing practices making it easy to transition to mini-racial reparations!
Disentangling is... impossible. Like you said, I try to draw a clear line between the teachings of Jesus, and the actions of the institutional church or just bad individuals/groups throughout history. But as much as you just focus on the person of Jesus, your life is still taking place within the systems of the world, which have largely been built by people who wielded the name of Jesus like a weapon, to oppress others under their power and control. I'm trying to go back to the essentials of the faith... the "early church" and all... but it's so hard, realizing that even your ideas of what the essentials of the faith should be, are still influenced by the indoctrination of your childhood. All I can do is accept that it's impossible to figure everything out, and grow comfortable with not having all the answers.
And also... this: "Since I had been taught since I was a child that it was belief that made you a Christian, well, I couldn’t be one anymore. (that’s a post for another day, I suppose)." Yes... I am realizing more and more that it can't be the ideas in our heads that "save" us or make us Christian. (Please write that post, haha)
It's so true! All of that. But yes even your "essentials" are tinted by the original indoctrination where it then feels like I have to think my way out of the first/automatic response. If I think my way to a new answer at all, or just get to a place of "well... not that."
I will definitely have to write that post! What I end up doing is writing my drafts in a word document then taking out enough stuff to get the post to 1200 words or less, which means that I have a paragraph about that future post hanging out in that word doc right now 😂
Very relatable. Half way through “white evangelical racism” - which I started yesterday after a brief conversation with my mom where she talked about the new Kelsey grammer movie that was sooo wooonderful (cough cough** you mean, revisionist history of the Jesus movement??) and that she would be visiting a (horrible) church this weekend because Eric Metaxas will be a guest speaker 😫😫 I’m listening to this book and praying for wisdom in how to express my concerns to her...if I express them at all.
Oh yay glad you started it!! Also, how am I so out of touch that I didn't even know about this movie? So I had to go look it up. It's getting quite a bit of press and I don't know if I want to start digging in -- I may as well just trust your judgment of revisionist history of the Jesus movement! 😂
Oof that's really tough when your mom is telling you all these things she's excited about...man she's deep in it. I'm going to be doing an interview with Liz Charlotte Grant soon and we'll be talking about navigating family boundaries and stuff in regards to religious beliefs -- shoot me a question if you have something you want me to ask her!
I don’t think I would’ve heard if not for her. Although DL Mayfield may be working on something about it soon. Her IG stories seemed to be on the same wavelength. Oh man, I did a complete deep dive & was giving my husband all the tea last night 😂😂 he was like “have you been reading Wikipedia all day” lol. 🤓
Looking forward to the interview! My main question is: how do I differentiate??? I just get sucked in so fast!
Love all of this. ❤️ Too tired for a long comment 😫 but I just did an IG live with my friend Trey, a Black pastor, and we talked about this. ❤️
Ahhh that's awesome! I didn't watch the live itself (sick kids - we all have covid!) but saw you did it! Also, soooo exciting about his book!
Very sorry to hear you all have Covid. Hope it’s mild and all will be well.
As you know, I wasn't brought in Evangelicalism but as a Catholic, which is a story for another day. But I applaud your efforts to get out from underneath what seems like an oppressive system. I know it must be because I see its effects in the adults in my church.
I have recently been really curious how if coming out from under strict Catholicism feels different than from strict evangelicalism? I wonder if there's differences because in evangelicalism, there's SO much emphasis on your personal salvation and relationship with Jesus that then there's a lot of internalized shame and guilt and more religious trauma. But maybe I just don't know enough religiously traumatized Catholics 😅🤷♀️
Catholics don't worry much about whether you're saved or not. If you're a Catholic, you're automatically saved. As long as you don't die with a mortal sin on your soul, you're good to go. And they don't worry about Jesus much, either. Same reason. It's the sin rules that are more important.
THIS: “...spirituality – based on the teachings of the person we know as Jesus Christ is going to be one that does not do harm to others, that stands up for the oppressed and marginalized, that extends grace and compassion to others, and that calls its followers to lead a more ethical, moral life.”
AND THIS: “I think of my seminary’s chapel with my Black fellow students singing gospel songs, swaying and clapping. I think of my Mennonite friends for whom nonviolence runs in their blood. I think of every church hanging a huge pride flag outside their walls. And I smile. And I believe in that.”
Christine, that’s a better sermon about what Christianity ought to be, and truer to the gospel, than anything I’ve ever heard from any pulpit.
Thank you, Chuck!!