I am also a milennial (albeit barely), and thankfully my baby and toddler parenting years were before Instagram was a thing. I suppose I always cared more about parenting than mothering, if that makes sense. I like the way I raised my child, much as I like the way I was raised, though both cases would definitely be improved if my mother and I as a parent had figured out our respective traumas earlier.
I was raised Christian, but a different enough form of Christianity that I don't think it's comparable to the Christian motherhood ideals you talk about. I was no longer Christian by the time I had my child. I liked my mother's take on the god stories, though: god-father and god-mother is the parent of everyone.
I find that most motherhood talk doesn't really talk much about the hardest part of mothering: how do you know when to pull back and when not to. This looks like something most mothers struggle with, but it's not a big conversation, as far as I have noticed. I tried to raise an independent kid, and I worry that while the attitude is there, the skill set is not. I suspect this is really common, but I don't know for sure.
I often tell the story of how Jesus tried to ruin our marriage. It was 1973 and Don and I had been married six years with three children under five. I was 31 and Don was 33. We had only recently come to believe in Jesus and were enthusiastically trying to do everything right. Up until then we had had an egalitarian marriage with decisions hammered out between us. The system was working well. Then came The Church.
We were encouraged to attend a five week seminar with a preacher called Ken Poure. He told us that in a Christian household the father was the Head, the mother was the Helper and the children had better behave. Mostly what I remember is his illustration of how that worked in real life. When it was time for decision making, each of the children got one vote, the Helper (Mother) got that number plus one and the Head got all those numbers - plus one. Talk about Catch 22! The Head always come out on top.
Don loved this arrangement. (Who wouldn't?) For the next two years, we tried living by Poure's teaching. It was a disaster! At last, fed up, I threatened divorce. The year was now 1975 and Women's Lib was making itself known. The final straw came one day when I was at home, after having cleaned, cooked, and picked up the children, having a glass of wine and a 'consciousness-raising session" with a fellow mother who had brought over her children for a play date, when Don came home from work. He was leaving on a business trip the next day. He went into the bedroom and come out again, furious. He yelled, "You haven't packed my suitcase!" I yelled back, "Pack it yourself!"
Things went downhill from there, with sessions at a Marriage and Family therapist taking the place of divorce filing. Eventually we emerged again into the light of day, with our new plans for an egalitarian marriage in place. No thanks to Jesus. ;)
Aug 12, 2022·edited Aug 12, 2022Liked by Christine Greenwald
My wife and I, married now for 48 years, were blissfully wed in the heyday [I double-checked to make sure I spelled that term correctly] of Bill Gothard, "The Total Woman," and the seedbed that later bore "purity culture." She bore 2.5 children while I was in seminary (boy #3 popped after graduation [having squeezed 4 years of study into five]). The saving grace in our marriage is most likely the fact that, while we were in seminary, the Godly Wives monthly meeting was abhorrent to her (and one of her friends). Rather than attend the meetings - even though they went to campus - they went to a lounge to watch Mork and Mindy. In truth, most of the crap (mostly in our early [say, thirty]) years had much more to do with her having married a selfish, controlling asshole than with the "Godly Woman/Mother/Wife" lies.
My wife, a classically-trained soprano with an incredible voice, sadly abandoned her gifts because she always felt torn between her love of and gift for singing and the church-demanded rhetoric of "only doing it for the glory of God." She cried in my arms just a few months ago as she angrily grieved the loss of a different, unknowable life in which she could have just sung to the glory of her voice. She hasn't sung publicly for more than 25 years. Thank you evangelical church and myopic husband!
Her willingness to stay with me (sorely tried at times) has given us the gift of some happy years as we "gracefully age" together.
Aug 13, 2022·edited Aug 14, 2022Liked by Christine Greenwald
Oh, Christine, I’m so sorry for this: “…the smallness of self we were supposed to have as girls and women… to lose your sense of self and serve a higher good.” Sadly, I know women, you and our friend Katye among them, who could be brilliant pastors and leaders, but even today in most churches it’s not allowed outside of women’s ministries. You are still expected to play it small. It breaks my heart for all women beaten down by patriarchy and forced to live in a Normal Rockwell painting!
I have no doubt traditional woman/motherhood is more stultifying, but Christian fatherhood ain’t so grand either. The perfect man slaves away 9 or 10 hours a day at some unfulfilling corporation that cares zero about him, trying to be a “good provider,” never able to express emotions or engage in genuine personal growth, and missing the life of his growing family all day long. I remember thinking, “Is this all I am, a ‘good provider’”? And if you’re not, you’re a failure!
Both genders miss out on opportunities for personal growth and self-expression because of stifling and rigid gender roles and unbalanced sharing of work and family responsibilities. I think we can imagine ways to handle both responsibilities better and more equally and also maybe change capitalism to quit working so damn much and pay us more, for the betterment of both genders and their families. And also find ways (better community and extended family support?) so both can have some frequent “me time” to discover and nurture themselves away from their responsibilities. I’m certain these things would result in more fulfilled parents and children and less family stress, domestic violence, alcohol/drug issues, etc.
And we haven’t even talked about the Christian apartheid that keeps women and men from being friends and learning from and supporting one another. Each is cut off from the other 50% of the human race! God forbid they ever socialize and grow from knowing and understanding each other because SEX is bound to happen if men and women mix! Can’t we be bigger than that?!!
Christianity and patriarchy are the perfect formula for stunted human development. Both genders will gain immensely by overthrowing them and finding better ways to live and raise families, ways that give each a chance to be more fully human.
I am Gen Z (I'm 24) and also deconstructed my faith in my early twenties, so I feel like the Ideal Christian Mother stereotype didn't have as much influence on me as the Good Christian Girl idea did (which I talked about on this week's post on my Substack). I would imagine that still being stuck in purity culture and evangelical thought would make the prospect of motherhood even harder. As it is, I know I'm not ready to be a mom yet, but I do want to adopt in the future (unless my future partner wanted to do a surrogate pregnancy herself/themselves; but I will never physically give birth). Even in Gen Z, so many evangelical women I know, folks I knew from youth group, are getting married so early and even though their Instagrams definitely look like you describe, I know from the stories of exvangelical millennials who married young that this is not the full story. Whenever I become a mom, I think that pushing back against that narrative will include something I'm doing right now and will always continue to do--to write about my experiences honestly and vulnerably, and to be in tune with my own body and communicate my needs to others.
I am also a milennial (albeit barely), and thankfully my baby and toddler parenting years were before Instagram was a thing. I suppose I always cared more about parenting than mothering, if that makes sense. I like the way I raised my child, much as I like the way I was raised, though both cases would definitely be improved if my mother and I as a parent had figured out our respective traumas earlier.
I was raised Christian, but a different enough form of Christianity that I don't think it's comparable to the Christian motherhood ideals you talk about. I was no longer Christian by the time I had my child. I liked my mother's take on the god stories, though: god-father and god-mother is the parent of everyone.
I find that most motherhood talk doesn't really talk much about the hardest part of mothering: how do you know when to pull back and when not to. This looks like something most mothers struggle with, but it's not a big conversation, as far as I have noticed. I tried to raise an independent kid, and I worry that while the attitude is there, the skill set is not. I suspect this is really common, but I don't know for sure.
Pam here, not Don.
I often tell the story of how Jesus tried to ruin our marriage. It was 1973 and Don and I had been married six years with three children under five. I was 31 and Don was 33. We had only recently come to believe in Jesus and were enthusiastically trying to do everything right. Up until then we had had an egalitarian marriage with decisions hammered out between us. The system was working well. Then came The Church.
We were encouraged to attend a five week seminar with a preacher called Ken Poure. He told us that in a Christian household the father was the Head, the mother was the Helper and the children had better behave. Mostly what I remember is his illustration of how that worked in real life. When it was time for decision making, each of the children got one vote, the Helper (Mother) got that number plus one and the Head got all those numbers - plus one. Talk about Catch 22! The Head always come out on top.
Don loved this arrangement. (Who wouldn't?) For the next two years, we tried living by Poure's teaching. It was a disaster! At last, fed up, I threatened divorce. The year was now 1975 and Women's Lib was making itself known. The final straw came one day when I was at home, after having cleaned, cooked, and picked up the children, having a glass of wine and a 'consciousness-raising session" with a fellow mother who had brought over her children for a play date, when Don came home from work. He was leaving on a business trip the next day. He went into the bedroom and come out again, furious. He yelled, "You haven't packed my suitcase!" I yelled back, "Pack it yourself!"
Things went downhill from there, with sessions at a Marriage and Family therapist taking the place of divorce filing. Eventually we emerged again into the light of day, with our new plans for an egalitarian marriage in place. No thanks to Jesus. ;)
My wife and I, married now for 48 years, were blissfully wed in the heyday [I double-checked to make sure I spelled that term correctly] of Bill Gothard, "The Total Woman," and the seedbed that later bore "purity culture." She bore 2.5 children while I was in seminary (boy #3 popped after graduation [having squeezed 4 years of study into five]). The saving grace in our marriage is most likely the fact that, while we were in seminary, the Godly Wives monthly meeting was abhorrent to her (and one of her friends). Rather than attend the meetings - even though they went to campus - they went to a lounge to watch Mork and Mindy. In truth, most of the crap (mostly in our early [say, thirty]) years had much more to do with her having married a selfish, controlling asshole than with the "Godly Woman/Mother/Wife" lies.
My wife, a classically-trained soprano with an incredible voice, sadly abandoned her gifts because she always felt torn between her love of and gift for singing and the church-demanded rhetoric of "only doing it for the glory of God." She cried in my arms just a few months ago as she angrily grieved the loss of a different, unknowable life in which she could have just sung to the glory of her voice. She hasn't sung publicly for more than 25 years. Thank you evangelical church and myopic husband!
Her willingness to stay with me (sorely tried at times) has given us the gift of some happy years as we "gracefully age" together.
Oh, Christine, I’m so sorry for this: “…the smallness of self we were supposed to have as girls and women… to lose your sense of self and serve a higher good.” Sadly, I know women, you and our friend Katye among them, who could be brilliant pastors and leaders, but even today in most churches it’s not allowed outside of women’s ministries. You are still expected to play it small. It breaks my heart for all women beaten down by patriarchy and forced to live in a Normal Rockwell painting!
I have no doubt traditional woman/motherhood is more stultifying, but Christian fatherhood ain’t so grand either. The perfect man slaves away 9 or 10 hours a day at some unfulfilling corporation that cares zero about him, trying to be a “good provider,” never able to express emotions or engage in genuine personal growth, and missing the life of his growing family all day long. I remember thinking, “Is this all I am, a ‘good provider’”? And if you’re not, you’re a failure!
Both genders miss out on opportunities for personal growth and self-expression because of stifling and rigid gender roles and unbalanced sharing of work and family responsibilities. I think we can imagine ways to handle both responsibilities better and more equally and also maybe change capitalism to quit working so damn much and pay us more, for the betterment of both genders and their families. And also find ways (better community and extended family support?) so both can have some frequent “me time” to discover and nurture themselves away from their responsibilities. I’m certain these things would result in more fulfilled parents and children and less family stress, domestic violence, alcohol/drug issues, etc.
And we haven’t even talked about the Christian apartheid that keeps women and men from being friends and learning from and supporting one another. Each is cut off from the other 50% of the human race! God forbid they ever socialize and grow from knowing and understanding each other because SEX is bound to happen if men and women mix! Can’t we be bigger than that?!!
Christianity and patriarchy are the perfect formula for stunted human development. Both genders will gain immensely by overthrowing them and finding better ways to live and raise families, ways that give each a chance to be more fully human.
I am Gen Z (I'm 24) and also deconstructed my faith in my early twenties, so I feel like the Ideal Christian Mother stereotype didn't have as much influence on me as the Good Christian Girl idea did (which I talked about on this week's post on my Substack). I would imagine that still being stuck in purity culture and evangelical thought would make the prospect of motherhood even harder. As it is, I know I'm not ready to be a mom yet, but I do want to adopt in the future (unless my future partner wanted to do a surrogate pregnancy herself/themselves; but I will never physically give birth). Even in Gen Z, so many evangelical women I know, folks I knew from youth group, are getting married so early and even though their Instagrams definitely look like you describe, I know from the stories of exvangelical millennials who married young that this is not the full story. Whenever I become a mom, I think that pushing back against that narrative will include something I'm doing right now and will always continue to do--to write about my experiences honestly and vulnerably, and to be in tune with my own body and communicate my needs to others.