Wow Christine! I always look forward to Fridays because I know you're going to have some truth bomb that I need to hear! It definitely has been healing for me, but such a long and hard process, to let go of beliefs like "I am fundamentally evil" or "incapable of doing anything good apart from God." To realize, wait, I can believe I am good? That is probably the most true and healing thing you can believe about yourself, but also the most offensive to fundamentalist Christians. It unravels all their preciously held theology. Probably the most deeply traumatizing belief I held was "I can't trust myself" - it's still hard for me to actually look inside and see myself, my gut, and my instincts as trustworthy. But I'm getting there, doing that healing work. It's just so frustrating for me to realize that this belief, of original sin/inherited guilt and all that, is an intrinsic and essential part of most Christian belief systems, and this is hurting people! They teach this stuff to kids... who take it seriously and absorb it as part of their core identity... and then take years of therapy to even begin to trust themselves and their own decisions... (can you tell I'm talking about myself here lol...) It makes me angry, then depressed when I think about how the entire system is built on things like this. I guess just starting with healing yourself is the first step.
Aw Sarah, that's so lovely to hear you look forward to Fridays 🥰 "I can't trust myself" is a big one! (and a classic example of a negative cognition people would work on in EMDR!)
At this point in my spiritual journey I can't even imagine teaching my kids that they're intrinsically bad and can't do anything good apart from God, etc. That just feels awful to teach to their sweet, innocent selves (lol even when they're driving me crazy -- I still can't see them that way!) Yes, healing ourselves as the first step -- but such trickle-down effects that has!
I found moving away from a belief original sin was a catalyst for healing for me. I had a struggle with my sense of worth which had lots of negative implications but I believed this was the way i probably should feel. I never could really get the God is love part until I discarded that belief. Now I think it's a pretty warped idea but it still seems pretty pervasive in the church. There seems to be a fear of thinking loving thoughts towards yourself
Definitely! When I first encountered the idea of original blessing over original sin (Richard Rohr, Matthew Fox), or just being able to not believe in original sin, it was mind-blowing. Now to work on all that engrained unconscious psychological material...
I found it the strangest thing how corrective beliefs would just come up from my depths during my personal EMDR processing. Things like “I am beautiful” and “My feelings matter.” As if those truths were just waiting there all along. Reconciling those experiences with the conservative religious milieu I was steeped in from birth became increasingly difficult. Now I’m completely outside of church, still working to find a healthier form of spirituality that makes sense with what I observe as an EMDR therapist.
YES!! I love that so much. It's wild how once the maladaptive stuff gets cleared out, the corrective beliefs just *appear* as if they were there all along! Really throws a wrench in that whole "original sin" thing... seems like goodness was waiting there all along, ready to be uncovered.
Thank you for sharing! I had a similar incredulous response to OCD therapy--I can just CHOOSE not to act on my worst beliefs and fears?!?! In keeping with Hamilton, “I wasn’t aware that was something a person could do.” 🇬🇧👑😂
I’m curious if/how EMDR can be integrated with OCD recovery. The OCD treatment I’ve found the most success with is Exposure and Repsonse Prevention (ERP), which focuses on changing BEHAVIOR not BELIEFS. However, it seems like ERP functionally leads to a similar place as EMDR--neutralizing or habituating the fear/trauma/belief. I have heard (and experienced) that surface level thought replacing is unhelpful for OCD though; do you have any insight here?
Thank you for sharing what you’re learning as you go!
So, my understanding is yes, EMDR can be integrated with OCD recovery! My trainer actually said something interesting: that the exposure therapies (ERP, Trauma-Focused CBT, etc) change the person's reaction to the stimulus, but they don't get at the core beliefs and real root of the cause, whereas EMDR is "breaking up the old neural highway" so to speak and "laying down a new road." Admittedly, I'm less familiar with ERP so I don't know how deep of digging it gets to, but it sounds like it's primarily just behavioral based? Would you say it's the response prevention part that's the real kicker / effective part of ERP, in your experience? (I'd love to hear more if you care to share!)
We named our cat Aaron Purr, so I am here for the Hamilton references 😹
That is interesting about the difference in focus between exposure therapies and EMDR. ERP is behavior based, but it’s my understanding that, with repetition, you can use ERP to re-wire neural pathways. By not doing the compulsion, you’re retraining your brain that the trigger wasn’t actually that dangerous/didn’t warrant a response so in the future your body doesn’t set off those alarm bells when the trigger occurs. I have found this to be true for me. Many things that used to throw me into an anxiety-spiral feel don’t feel as overwhelming anymore, and some of my fears I even laugh at now, oh silly OCD. I can see how EMDR could maybe jumpstart or accelerate that re-wiring process.
Yes, the real kicker/power in ERP is the response prevention! I feel exposed all the time 😂😭 not acting on my fears has paved the way for inner strength, resilience, and even wisdom to pop up.
Ok that totally makes sense, and yeah I think EMDR would be really pressing the accelerator on the re-wiring process! I am noticing that with the phobia I was trying to address through my practice EMDR sessions (a phobia that involves a lot of obsessive thinking and some compulsions), I'm already experiencing a noticeable amount of relief over the course of a few sessions' worth of reprocessing. It seems like EMDR is sort of a more passive way (like your nervous system / unconscious / subconscious are doing a lot of the work for you) to do much of the same stuff that ERP is doing!
I'm really happy for you that you've found so much recovery from OCD! Yay resilience and inner strength!
Oh, that sounds nice to have a more passive way to rewire the brain! To my knowledge, EMDR is not yet an evidence-based treatment for OCD, but I have been hearing it come up more and more! So perhaps the research and recommendations will reflect that soon.
I happened to be in an EMDR consultation group today where the question of treating OCD with EMDR came up! Dr Paula Krentzel apparently does work in this area-- here’s a website to check out if you care to!
The first thing that comes to mind is how my dad answers the question “how are you?” - with, “better than I deserve.” And it makes me so sad for him. 💔
But second, I think I was very fortunate to maintain a sense of goodness through all my fundy upbringing. I’m glad you are loving your emdr training and can’t wait to hear more.
Also, my youth group watched a lot of early rob bell and “imago dei” was a buzzword and I think it just made sense that God made us good.
Can I ask an emdr question - how early can it be used? I have a 7 year old with anxiety around a specific medical procedure and I’m wondering if she could use emdr to reprocess it?
Your youth group sounds relatively all right!! All those Nooma videos, yeah?!
EMDR-wise: absolutely, she could use it! The specific training I did had a perinatal focus and this trainer was super trauma-informed and my group's coach actually does a lot of EMDR with children, herself. She's based in Columbus OH even! I'd recommend looking for someone who is familiar with doing EMDR with children specifically -- if you can find the magical intersection of play therapy and EMDR somewhere near you... that would be the best!
Absolutely fascinating article, Christine!! I loved learning about EMDR and discovering it can do more than I was aware of. I want to try erasing two issues of old stuck theology: (1) worry about the “demonic,” and (2) poor self esteem from believing as a child that god must hate me and want to torment me because I had a lifelong chronic illness (similar to your original sin concerns). I have gotten past both issues far enough to have some amazing experiences with various oracle cards, spirit guides, visualizations, and the divine. But the thoughts and their emotional baggage still seem to be vaguely there in the background sometimes. I look forward to seeing if I can clear them with EMDR. Thanks for a GREAT post!!
The specificity of issues you want to target makes me think you could definitely do some efficient (not in a capitalist way... in a yay, let's get this healing going way!) work with EMDR! I'm such an evangelist for EMDR now -- so ironic 😂
The chronic illness (asthma, I presume) has had an enormous impact on you! I can only imagine the terror and then poor self-esteem resulting from being so severely sick, so often.
I love your varying spiritual experiences...I'm here for ALL the stories you'll care to share on your blog!
Wow Christine! I always look forward to Fridays because I know you're going to have some truth bomb that I need to hear! It definitely has been healing for me, but such a long and hard process, to let go of beliefs like "I am fundamentally evil" or "incapable of doing anything good apart from God." To realize, wait, I can believe I am good? That is probably the most true and healing thing you can believe about yourself, but also the most offensive to fundamentalist Christians. It unravels all their preciously held theology. Probably the most deeply traumatizing belief I held was "I can't trust myself" - it's still hard for me to actually look inside and see myself, my gut, and my instincts as trustworthy. But I'm getting there, doing that healing work. It's just so frustrating for me to realize that this belief, of original sin/inherited guilt and all that, is an intrinsic and essential part of most Christian belief systems, and this is hurting people! They teach this stuff to kids... who take it seriously and absorb it as part of their core identity... and then take years of therapy to even begin to trust themselves and their own decisions... (can you tell I'm talking about myself here lol...) It makes me angry, then depressed when I think about how the entire system is built on things like this. I guess just starting with healing yourself is the first step.
Aw Sarah, that's so lovely to hear you look forward to Fridays 🥰 "I can't trust myself" is a big one! (and a classic example of a negative cognition people would work on in EMDR!)
At this point in my spiritual journey I can't even imagine teaching my kids that they're intrinsically bad and can't do anything good apart from God, etc. That just feels awful to teach to their sweet, innocent selves (lol even when they're driving me crazy -- I still can't see them that way!) Yes, healing ourselves as the first step -- but such trickle-down effects that has!
I found moving away from a belief original sin was a catalyst for healing for me. I had a struggle with my sense of worth which had lots of negative implications but I believed this was the way i probably should feel. I never could really get the God is love part until I discarded that belief. Now I think it's a pretty warped idea but it still seems pretty pervasive in the church. There seems to be a fear of thinking loving thoughts towards yourself
Definitely! When I first encountered the idea of original blessing over original sin (Richard Rohr, Matthew Fox), or just being able to not believe in original sin, it was mind-blowing. Now to work on all that engrained unconscious psychological material...
I found it the strangest thing how corrective beliefs would just come up from my depths during my personal EMDR processing. Things like “I am beautiful” and “My feelings matter.” As if those truths were just waiting there all along. Reconciling those experiences with the conservative religious milieu I was steeped in from birth became increasingly difficult. Now I’m completely outside of church, still working to find a healthier form of spirituality that makes sense with what I observe as an EMDR therapist.
YES!! I love that so much. It's wild how once the maladaptive stuff gets cleared out, the corrective beliefs just *appear* as if they were there all along! Really throws a wrench in that whole "original sin" thing... seems like goodness was waiting there all along, ready to be uncovered.
That’s beautiful!
Thank you for sharing! I had a similar incredulous response to OCD therapy--I can just CHOOSE not to act on my worst beliefs and fears?!?! In keeping with Hamilton, “I wasn’t aware that was something a person could do.” 🇬🇧👑😂
I’m curious if/how EMDR can be integrated with OCD recovery. The OCD treatment I’ve found the most success with is Exposure and Repsonse Prevention (ERP), which focuses on changing BEHAVIOR not BELIEFS. However, it seems like ERP functionally leads to a similar place as EMDR--neutralizing or habituating the fear/trauma/belief. I have heard (and experienced) that surface level thought replacing is unhelpful for OCD though; do you have any insight here?
Thank you for sharing what you’re learning as you go!
Hahaha perfect Hamilton reference 😂
So, my understanding is yes, EMDR can be integrated with OCD recovery! My trainer actually said something interesting: that the exposure therapies (ERP, Trauma-Focused CBT, etc) change the person's reaction to the stimulus, but they don't get at the core beliefs and real root of the cause, whereas EMDR is "breaking up the old neural highway" so to speak and "laying down a new road." Admittedly, I'm less familiar with ERP so I don't know how deep of digging it gets to, but it sounds like it's primarily just behavioral based? Would you say it's the response prevention part that's the real kicker / effective part of ERP, in your experience? (I'd love to hear more if you care to share!)
We named our cat Aaron Purr, so I am here for the Hamilton references 😹
That is interesting about the difference in focus between exposure therapies and EMDR. ERP is behavior based, but it’s my understanding that, with repetition, you can use ERP to re-wire neural pathways. By not doing the compulsion, you’re retraining your brain that the trigger wasn’t actually that dangerous/didn’t warrant a response so in the future your body doesn’t set off those alarm bells when the trigger occurs. I have found this to be true for me. Many things that used to throw me into an anxiety-spiral feel don’t feel as overwhelming anymore, and some of my fears I even laugh at now, oh silly OCD. I can see how EMDR could maybe jumpstart or accelerate that re-wiring process.
Yes, the real kicker/power in ERP is the response prevention! I feel exposed all the time 😂😭 not acting on my fears has paved the way for inner strength, resilience, and even wisdom to pop up.
Aaron Purr!!! I love it 😂😹
Ok that totally makes sense, and yeah I think EMDR would be really pressing the accelerator on the re-wiring process! I am noticing that with the phobia I was trying to address through my practice EMDR sessions (a phobia that involves a lot of obsessive thinking and some compulsions), I'm already experiencing a noticeable amount of relief over the course of a few sessions' worth of reprocessing. It seems like EMDR is sort of a more passive way (like your nervous system / unconscious / subconscious are doing a lot of the work for you) to do much of the same stuff that ERP is doing!
I'm really happy for you that you've found so much recovery from OCD! Yay resilience and inner strength!
Oh, that sounds nice to have a more passive way to rewire the brain! To my knowledge, EMDR is not yet an evidence-based treatment for OCD, but I have been hearing it come up more and more! So perhaps the research and recommendations will reflect that soon.
I happened to be in an EMDR consultation group today where the question of treating OCD with EMDR came up! Dr Paula Krentzel apparently does work in this area-- here’s a website to check out if you care to!
https://www.drcpaula.com/the-distancing-technique
How serendipitous! I will check her out!
I love EMDR! It's been super helpful in my journey.
The first thing that comes to mind is how my dad answers the question “how are you?” - with, “better than I deserve.” And it makes me so sad for him. 💔
But second, I think I was very fortunate to maintain a sense of goodness through all my fundy upbringing. I’m glad you are loving your emdr training and can’t wait to hear more.
That is a sad response! It's a common thing church-y people will say, I know, but it is actually sad when you think about it!
That's pretty amazing that you could maintain that sense of goodness - I think that's really beautiful :)
I think “original sin” was something I just always found hard to believe. Even if I couldn’t say it out loud. 😅
Also, my youth group watched a lot of early rob bell and “imago dei” was a buzzword and I think it just made sense that God made us good.
Can I ask an emdr question - how early can it be used? I have a 7 year old with anxiety around a specific medical procedure and I’m wondering if she could use emdr to reprocess it?
Your youth group sounds relatively all right!! All those Nooma videos, yeah?!
EMDR-wise: absolutely, she could use it! The specific training I did had a perinatal focus and this trainer was super trauma-informed and my group's coach actually does a lot of EMDR with children, herself. She's based in Columbus OH even! I'd recommend looking for someone who is familiar with doing EMDR with children specifically -- if you can find the magical intersection of play therapy and EMDR somewhere near you... that would be the best!
Yep, nooma!! We thought rob was so cool! (I mean, he is)
Ooh yes, I will have to see what I can find! It’s so tricky finding the intersection of age/modality and insurance 😅
Absolutely fascinating article, Christine!! I loved learning about EMDR and discovering it can do more than I was aware of. I want to try erasing two issues of old stuck theology: (1) worry about the “demonic,” and (2) poor self esteem from believing as a child that god must hate me and want to torment me because I had a lifelong chronic illness (similar to your original sin concerns). I have gotten past both issues far enough to have some amazing experiences with various oracle cards, spirit guides, visualizations, and the divine. But the thoughts and their emotional baggage still seem to be vaguely there in the background sometimes. I look forward to seeing if I can clear them with EMDR. Thanks for a GREAT post!!
The specificity of issues you want to target makes me think you could definitely do some efficient (not in a capitalist way... in a yay, let's get this healing going way!) work with EMDR! I'm such an evangelist for EMDR now -- so ironic 😂
The chronic illness (asthma, I presume) has had an enormous impact on you! I can only imagine the terror and then poor self-esteem resulting from being so severely sick, so often.
I love your varying spiritual experiences...I'm here for ALL the stories you'll care to share on your blog!
Thank you for that encouragement!