Growing up I was always taught that it was the other religions that were cults... But the same criteria were never applied to evangelicalism. Now, it's freeing for me to even be able to think about calling my faith of origin (thank you for that phrase) a cult. I'm thankful that I didn't grow up in as much of a fundamentalist/high-control environment as others or even as much as some of my childhood friends. But there were so many cult-like aspects of my upbringing, and I'm just now learning this. (Wouldn't let myself question things before.) Now I'm walking the tightrope between staying in my Christian community and deconstructing what evangelicalism taught me it meant to be a Christian. Thanks for your posts here, they are really helpful!
That's been a very common theme - we were taught about cults, just that it was everyone else who was in one!
We use the phrase "family of origin" a lot in psychology / therapy, but it seems super apt for faith, too, because it was so formative! Glad it's been helpful for you. :) And it's quite the tightrope walk you're on!
Ken Ham wasn't fundamentalist enough for my family (really, my dad) - though I can't remember his specific beef with him. Henry Morris's Institute for Creation Research was my dad's jam, and I got a lot of exposure to that (and believed it all, of course).
The private christian evangelical / fundamentalist school my parents sent me to had a "Philosophy" class which was really just culture war indoctrination, focused on "worldviews" and why only the [American, White] christian worldview makes sense of the world. We watched more than our share of David Barton videos in that class (ugh).
I took a Bible course elective at that school which was about cults and it really is something how they (and also by extension, us students who were being indoctrinated) would point the finger at other groups but never allow that same critique to land on their own beliefs.
WOW, I'm kinda stunned that Ken Ham didn't pass the fundamentalist-enough test!!! 😮 So you were a super hardcore fundy!
My parent really wanted me to go to a summer camp in Colorado Springs (I'm from Denver) -- trying to remember the name... anyway, it was all about the kids studying worldview and coming up with the "best" apologetics for their beliefs. So glad I didn't go.
YES about pointing fingers but never able to look in a mirror... makes me try and be cautious to not do that now and just be fundamentalist in a different direction!
Wish I could remember why he didn't like Ham, though not enough to ask at Christmas and get an earful (lol).
Your mention of CO Springs reminds me that my family visited Focus on the Family's HQ there when we went on a trip to another part of Colorado. I was disappointed Whit's End wasn't serving food that day. Oh, and Dobson took a major hit in my dad's book after he had Hugh Ross on his program, because Hugh Ross was a theistic evolutionist and YEC was the only acceptable dogma.
I was big into Francis Schaeffer's apologetics ideas around my senior year of high school and right after, but my introverted self who didn't want to actually confront people and aggressively witness but was doing so because he believed he absolutely had to, backed off after bombing hard in some attempts at my university (at the time I just blamed myself for failing to do it right, rather than question the actual beliefs).
Too true about fundamentalism dying hard. I have thought of myself as having a fundamentalist skeleton - it's still in there, still the 'default' framework I can operate in, if I'm not mindful.
Hahahaha some questions are better left unsaid. Dobson had a theistic evolutionist on his radio show, whaaat?? Yeah that would have been a definite no-no in my evangelical parent's book, also!!
Oof I feel that pressure to witness to people but being too introverted to have any desire to (except that I continued to be too shy, and so I just felt horribly guilty for letting all these poor souls go to hell due to my negligence. Sigh).
The black-and-white, in-or-out fundamentalist thinking is so powerful, even after leaving a group. Though I've been reflecting lately about maybe one reason I'm not a "joiner" or don't like to do things that involve a lot of single-minded commitment and/or money to a group is part because I hate the feeling of being all in on something that feels culty. Interesting ways fundamentalism affects us!
It was probably Summit Ministries in Manitou Springs. I had several friends from my classical charter school who went to that camp/program. As if our senior year "Rhetoric" class wasn't enough to indoctrinate us with the "worldviews" narrative and show how every other worldview besides Christianity was flawed.
That sounds correct! Thanks for helping me out! 😆 I’d be curious how many people stick with that worldview 10 years out, and what folks would think of how well it indoctrinated them, if they left!
Haha yeah. As far as I know, my friends who did that program are still thoroughly immersed in evangelicalism... I don't think any of them are deconstructing like I am 🤣
Good post, Christine! For more info on "high control, high demand" check out the books of Mary Douglas, well-respected sociologist (now passed) including Purity and Danger and Natural Symbols. I did a digest of the latter called Sociology of Religion in my own last post.
I went to a fundy school and had to take a class in HS called “cults & missions” - one semester of each. There were like 10 tenets that made a group a cult, but the only one I can remember was “made any other figure besides Jesus divine” which made the entire Catholic Church a cult because of their reverence for mary!! 😂 I say if they can throw the word cult around, so can we. Lol
Lolol peak evangelicalism right there to make a definition of a cult anything that is outside *their particular* belief system!! 😂 True - if they can do it, so can we!
I literally took courses and read books that used this argument. They would even point to some behavior that was cult-like with caveats that it was different when similar behavior was observed in the Church because "we believed what is true".
Power, control, coercion—yep, that’s most of Christianity, at least all the conservative denominations, which again is most of them. Once they sell you on the basic premises that they have the only “truth,” they’ve gotten into your mind where they can thoroughly control you. You feel miserable for being a normal human with emotions, thoughts, and drives that drift outside of their very strict and unhealthy unthinking boundaries, and that includes doubts about their teachings and the desire to leave. If you do leave, you’ll go to hell, for sure, won’t you?! Isn’t leaving and expressing disbelief of conservative Christianity the same as “blaspheming the holy spirit” for which there is no forgiveness?! Yikes!!
For me the key to being able to let it all go was finally realizing there is no hell—believing the divine is genuinely all-loving and would never ever be so cruel. Once you rethink that (and I also had some direct spiritual experiences that convinced me of the loving divine nature), you can become free of all the rest of the coercion—though social coercion can be powerful and painful too! And once free, you can find the spirituality that you genuinely sense within and leave the hurtful stuff behind, although for some the latter could be a lifelong project.
Thanks for making it so very clear what harmful cult “spirituality” looks like, Christine. Sadly, much of Christianity IS a cult—at least the conservative denominations. May all of your readers escape it and find genuine inner freedom.
Oh that's so true about the blaspheming the holy spirit thing!! That was always a mysterious verse (given that it doesn't explain itself), but the general takeaway seemed to be doubting God or turning your back on him, which really just meant doubting the church's teachings on God... great control tactic!!
Me too - releasing belief about hell was terrifying but then so very freeing. Hard to make any more progress without letting go of hell, or at least for me, not having such a narrow view of hell -- not having to believe that everyone who believed different than me was destined for hell. Ugh, such a self-serving, egotistical belief system - but when you're in it, it seems so right!
“… when you're in it, it seems so right!” So true, Christine. It seems logical and loving on the surface. But I kept asking myself, “If this is the true faith, why do I often feel so miserable, and why are there so many contradictions, like an all-loving god sending decent innocent people to hell?” That became my way out. (Waiting for a lightning bolt now— lol!)
The doctrine of hell is the single thing that has given me the most anxiety and conflict about questioning "orthodox" Christian beliefs for the last several months. I want to move into that genuine, free spirituality that you mentioned but I feel like this is the wall standing in my way. Seems like you're way ahead of me and gotten past it, while I'm right in the middle of the turmoil. Would you (Chuck or Christine) happen to have any resources that you recommend to help think through the topic?
I have lots of thoughts! And also, that's a really hard / anxious place to be in, and I remember it very very well (also this foreboding sense that I was going to make God so mad by doubting what I'd always been told was The Truth).
One of my earliest hints of something else besides hell came in the form of CS Lewis' The Great Divorce, and the line about hell that it's something we lock ourselves into, not that God locks us into. (Like if you would only choose to open the door, you could get out). Then Rob Bell's Love Wins (for me this was happening late 00s and early 10s, so the book was pretty new back then). But I still think it's a good resource -- he doesn't cite anything but he actually does get a lot of his thinking from many, many theologians who have gone before him. I also was surprised when I learned that Origen, renowned church father from around 200 CE, was something of a universalist. Then I began to slowly learn how our conceptions of hell was something that really came about strongly in the last several centuries. Oh and that Dante's Inferno played a heavy role in how we conceptualize hell today. Once you start digging into the topic outside of an evangelical research framework, you'd be amazed what you find!
Thank you so much! I read The Great Divorce in high school, and I remember it standing out to me as a lifelong Narnia fan, since there are also some different ideas of who gets into heaven in The Last Battle. I should read it again. And oh yeah, Rob Bell! He was branded as a heretic by all my pastors of course, but I never actually read Love Wins for myself. I also really need to check out Origen too. Thanks for the recommendations!
🙌🙌 WE CAN SAY IT!!! (And so excited to see all the sass and hold-no-punches that Jaded contains!!)
I can say it. Evangelicalism is a CULT. I love all of this and I love that you’re writing a book about it. Can’t wait to read it!
Growing up I was always taught that it was the other religions that were cults... But the same criteria were never applied to evangelicalism. Now, it's freeing for me to even be able to think about calling my faith of origin (thank you for that phrase) a cult. I'm thankful that I didn't grow up in as much of a fundamentalist/high-control environment as others or even as much as some of my childhood friends. But there were so many cult-like aspects of my upbringing, and I'm just now learning this. (Wouldn't let myself question things before.) Now I'm walking the tightrope between staying in my Christian community and deconstructing what evangelicalism taught me it meant to be a Christian. Thanks for your posts here, they are really helpful!
That's been a very common theme - we were taught about cults, just that it was everyone else who was in one!
We use the phrase "family of origin" a lot in psychology / therapy, but it seems super apt for faith, too, because it was so formative! Glad it's been helpful for you. :) And it's quite the tightrope walk you're on!
Ken Ham wasn't fundamentalist enough for my family (really, my dad) - though I can't remember his specific beef with him. Henry Morris's Institute for Creation Research was my dad's jam, and I got a lot of exposure to that (and believed it all, of course).
The private christian evangelical / fundamentalist school my parents sent me to had a "Philosophy" class which was really just culture war indoctrination, focused on "worldviews" and why only the [American, White] christian worldview makes sense of the world. We watched more than our share of David Barton videos in that class (ugh).
I took a Bible course elective at that school which was about cults and it really is something how they (and also by extension, us students who were being indoctrinated) would point the finger at other groups but never allow that same critique to land on their own beliefs.
WOW, I'm kinda stunned that Ken Ham didn't pass the fundamentalist-enough test!!! 😮 So you were a super hardcore fundy!
My parent really wanted me to go to a summer camp in Colorado Springs (I'm from Denver) -- trying to remember the name... anyway, it was all about the kids studying worldview and coming up with the "best" apologetics for their beliefs. So glad I didn't go.
YES about pointing fingers but never able to look in a mirror... makes me try and be cautious to not do that now and just be fundamentalist in a different direction!
Wish I could remember why he didn't like Ham, though not enough to ask at Christmas and get an earful (lol).
Your mention of CO Springs reminds me that my family visited Focus on the Family's HQ there when we went on a trip to another part of Colorado. I was disappointed Whit's End wasn't serving food that day. Oh, and Dobson took a major hit in my dad's book after he had Hugh Ross on his program, because Hugh Ross was a theistic evolutionist and YEC was the only acceptable dogma.
I was big into Francis Schaeffer's apologetics ideas around my senior year of high school and right after, but my introverted self who didn't want to actually confront people and aggressively witness but was doing so because he believed he absolutely had to, backed off after bombing hard in some attempts at my university (at the time I just blamed myself for failing to do it right, rather than question the actual beliefs).
Too true about fundamentalism dying hard. I have thought of myself as having a fundamentalist skeleton - it's still in there, still the 'default' framework I can operate in, if I'm not mindful.
Hahahaha some questions are better left unsaid. Dobson had a theistic evolutionist on his radio show, whaaat?? Yeah that would have been a definite no-no in my evangelical parent's book, also!!
Oof I feel that pressure to witness to people but being too introverted to have any desire to (except that I continued to be too shy, and so I just felt horribly guilty for letting all these poor souls go to hell due to my negligence. Sigh).
The black-and-white, in-or-out fundamentalist thinking is so powerful, even after leaving a group. Though I've been reflecting lately about maybe one reason I'm not a "joiner" or don't like to do things that involve a lot of single-minded commitment and/or money to a group is part because I hate the feeling of being all in on something that feels culty. Interesting ways fundamentalism affects us!
It was probably Summit Ministries in Manitou Springs. I had several friends from my classical charter school who went to that camp/program. As if our senior year "Rhetoric" class wasn't enough to indoctrinate us with the "worldviews" narrative and show how every other worldview besides Christianity was flawed.
That sounds correct! Thanks for helping me out! 😆 I’d be curious how many people stick with that worldview 10 years out, and what folks would think of how well it indoctrinated them, if they left!
Haha yeah. As far as I know, my friends who did that program are still thoroughly immersed in evangelicalism... I don't think any of them are deconstructing like I am 🤣
I guess it worked then!! 😬
Good post, Christine! For more info on "high control, high demand" check out the books of Mary Douglas, well-respected sociologist (now passed) including Purity and Danger and Natural Symbols. I did a digest of the latter called Sociology of Religion in my own last post.
Oh yes, I remember that post coming through! Will have to re-read it!
I went to a fundy school and had to take a class in HS called “cults & missions” - one semester of each. There were like 10 tenets that made a group a cult, but the only one I can remember was “made any other figure besides Jesus divine” which made the entire Catholic Church a cult because of their reverence for mary!! 😂 I say if they can throw the word cult around, so can we. Lol
Lolol peak evangelicalism right there to make a definition of a cult anything that is outside *their particular* belief system!! 😂 True - if they can do it, so can we!
I literally took courses and read books that used this argument. They would even point to some behavior that was cult-like with caveats that it was different when similar behavior was observed in the Church because "we believed what is true".
Oh wow. The cognitive dissonance required to see cult-ish behavior in your own group but ignore it because you have to believe your beliefs are true!!
Ha ha this is so freeing for me! We called everyone else a cult, so now I get to call white evangelicalism a cult!!!
Really relieves a lot of hesitancy I might have had about that! 😂
Power, control, coercion—yep, that’s most of Christianity, at least all the conservative denominations, which again is most of them. Once they sell you on the basic premises that they have the only “truth,” they’ve gotten into your mind where they can thoroughly control you. You feel miserable for being a normal human with emotions, thoughts, and drives that drift outside of their very strict and unhealthy unthinking boundaries, and that includes doubts about their teachings and the desire to leave. If you do leave, you’ll go to hell, for sure, won’t you?! Isn’t leaving and expressing disbelief of conservative Christianity the same as “blaspheming the holy spirit” for which there is no forgiveness?! Yikes!!
For me the key to being able to let it all go was finally realizing there is no hell—believing the divine is genuinely all-loving and would never ever be so cruel. Once you rethink that (and I also had some direct spiritual experiences that convinced me of the loving divine nature), you can become free of all the rest of the coercion—though social coercion can be powerful and painful too! And once free, you can find the spirituality that you genuinely sense within and leave the hurtful stuff behind, although for some the latter could be a lifelong project.
Thanks for making it so very clear what harmful cult “spirituality” looks like, Christine. Sadly, much of Christianity IS a cult—at least the conservative denominations. May all of your readers escape it and find genuine inner freedom.
Oh that's so true about the blaspheming the holy spirit thing!! That was always a mysterious verse (given that it doesn't explain itself), but the general takeaway seemed to be doubting God or turning your back on him, which really just meant doubting the church's teachings on God... great control tactic!!
Me too - releasing belief about hell was terrifying but then so very freeing. Hard to make any more progress without letting go of hell, or at least for me, not having such a narrow view of hell -- not having to believe that everyone who believed different than me was destined for hell. Ugh, such a self-serving, egotistical belief system - but when you're in it, it seems so right!
“… when you're in it, it seems so right!” So true, Christine. It seems logical and loving on the surface. But I kept asking myself, “If this is the true faith, why do I often feel so miserable, and why are there so many contradictions, like an all-loving god sending decent innocent people to hell?” That became my way out. (Waiting for a lightning bolt now— lol!)
The doctrine of hell is the single thing that has given me the most anxiety and conflict about questioning "orthodox" Christian beliefs for the last several months. I want to move into that genuine, free spirituality that you mentioned but I feel like this is the wall standing in my way. Seems like you're way ahead of me and gotten past it, while I'm right in the middle of the turmoil. Would you (Chuck or Christine) happen to have any resources that you recommend to help think through the topic?
I have lots of thoughts! And also, that's a really hard / anxious place to be in, and I remember it very very well (also this foreboding sense that I was going to make God so mad by doubting what I'd always been told was The Truth).
One of my earliest hints of something else besides hell came in the form of CS Lewis' The Great Divorce, and the line about hell that it's something we lock ourselves into, not that God locks us into. (Like if you would only choose to open the door, you could get out). Then Rob Bell's Love Wins (for me this was happening late 00s and early 10s, so the book was pretty new back then). But I still think it's a good resource -- he doesn't cite anything but he actually does get a lot of his thinking from many, many theologians who have gone before him. I also was surprised when I learned that Origen, renowned church father from around 200 CE, was something of a universalist. Then I began to slowly learn how our conceptions of hell was something that really came about strongly in the last several centuries. Oh and that Dante's Inferno played a heavy role in how we conceptualize hell today. Once you start digging into the topic outside of an evangelical research framework, you'd be amazed what you find!
Thank you so much! I read The Great Divorce in high school, and I remember it standing out to me as a lifelong Narnia fan, since there are also some different ideas of who gets into heaven in The Last Battle. I should read it again. And oh yeah, Rob Bell! He was branded as a heretic by all my pastors of course, but I never actually read Love Wins for myself. I also really need to check out Origen too. Thanks for the recommendations!