I was usually given "pleasure to have in the class" and something like "I encourage her to speak up more" from teachers. When a child is not disruptive, the adults think everything is perfect. I'm pretty sure I was that girl moving around the playground, not really a part of relationships, but appearing to be, which worked for me. I also enjoyed being the "ball monitor", which meant I could stay inside by myself and record when kids borrowed and returned sports equipment during recess.
I thought I experienced a lot of anxiety but I recently read an email from Dr. Megan Anna Neff (I recommend their emails) and they talked about social dread vs. anxiety, and how dread is about feeling overwhelmed for example, sensory overwhelm, and how treating dread vs. anxiety is different. Now I think I have experienced a lifetime of social dread, with a dash of anxiety on the side.
I feel like parenting is at least twice as hard for me as it is for allistic people. Sometimes that makes me feel bad, but I'd like to remind myself that it means I'm working so much harder to make it work. And relax my jaw a little. I think I was "adulting" ok before we had kids (not great, but I was surviving), and then parenting completely rocked my world. I haven't worked at a "real job" since having kids and I cannot image how that could work, I just can't do both, not even part time. I do work from home but I'm self-employed, so I set the boundaries. I felt completely unprepared for how much harder parenting would be than I was told. I think it's the conflicting sensory needs that is the hardest in our family.
I've taken some of the online autism assessments (several times over the last year or 2 to compare) and always scored with results that say something like "most likely autistic". I wish it wasn't so expensive to get diagnosed here, or I would have probably done it already. I would tell someone else that self diagnosis is valid but it would still feel better to have it official.
Oh my gosh! I replied to you in my head like 5 different times and just realized it never made it to the computer screen. Meanwhile, I checked out the post from Dr. Neff that you were referring to (on a particularly social dread-full day) and found it fascinating! Like yes! Both dread and anxiety; check!
Your first paragraph also describes me except I didn't get lucky enough to be ball monitor 😅 but I love that that could work for you!
Glad to share (virtual) space with someone else who gets *extra* worn out from the demands of parenting. Yes to conflicting sensory needs (and the feeling of having to be "on" in a way that feels, well, boring a lot of the time; and not being able to regulate incoming stimulation). Having an outlet (work) that is relatively quiet, intellectually stimulating, and only requires that I "people" one person at a time has been immensely helpful, but I'm not sure how I'd survive a demanding 40hr/week job according to someone else's schedule. And. I hear you about official and how it feels almost totally cost-prohibitive. :(
Lastly! Hahahaha I'm not sure whether to be more embarrassed that I miscounted that dashes or more pleased that you knew exactly what I meant and cared enough to correct me, but honestly I think it's the second (and not just because that's the polite thing to say). Thanks for knowing what I meant! 🤣
I’ve been thinking a lot about dread lately, as we get closer to the end of the school year for our kids. I dread the lack of routine and solitude and what feels like huge sensory conflicts and the inevitable burnout I feel every summer. So I put a reminder in my todoist app, which I think I got from Dr. Neff: "I see you, routine disruption anxiety." My reminder to myself that I’m feeling out of sorts because I’m missing our routines.
I relate to so much of this, Anika. Thank you for voicing the fact that parenting feels so much harder as an autistic adult, and your reminder that we’re working harder! I need to get a job with more hours/better pay than the 3-4 shifts a month at the bookstore, and I’ve had meltdowns about it recently. The chances of me getting a remote job are high, so while that means I technically don’t need childcare, the thought(s) of adding yet more complexity to my summer is overwhelming.
Can I ask what you do to be self-employed? I’m desperate for ideas.
Well my work doesn’t pay much, so I’m not sure if I will be helpful. I have been selling printables on Etsy and my website. More recently I am designing and selling greeting cards, postcards and stickers wholesale (which is more successful so hopefully I have finally found something that is sustainable).
Excellent, excellent, excellent coverage of female autism, Christine. As a boy raised by women, it does not surprise me at all that I largely fit your description of autistic girls, especially as you described the middle school and high school years. So much is familiar--loner, afraid of being noticed, strong emotions/prone to meltdowns, didn't understand social behavior and conversation, terrible lifelong social anxiety, lived in my imagination/dissociation, focused intensely (obsessed) on certain things, feelings of overwhelm and depression, codependent, always wanting to please and appease, weak sense of self, target of bullies as kids sensed I was different, etc. Yet, interestingly, just as I have never fit in as neurotypical, it seems like I also don't completely fit as an autistic person. I don't fit the male autistic stereotype and do mostly fit your female description, but I'm male. It's like I can't win, can't fit no matter which way I turn. I know I'm different, but I will continue to dwell in a neverland of uncertainty about what/who exactly I am. Thankfully, it doesn't really matter anymore at my present age and stage, and I've long since accepted myself and even found a meaningful path in life. But wouldn't we all like to understand why we were always so different from everybody else? Your explanation takes me a lot farther in that understanding.
That makes so much sense about being raised in a female-dominated environment, so your experience turning out quite differently! I am happy for you that you have transcended the need and desire for labels and you can happily pursue your life path that's on its own unique course!
I am called out too. Notes from my kindergarten teacher report that “instead of joining in, Amy waits to be invited to join groups of children at play.” And I still think this is perfectly reasonable. And polite. 😃 Thank you for this piece! Any thoughts on how autism in girls might relate to ADHD, another dx that girls often aren’t assessed for in childhood?
Hahaha I consider that perfectly reasonable too! I can still watch groups of children and marvel at the way most of them seem to just *know* how to join in even when they don't know the others that well!
Well, I know the diagnostic overlap is quite strong (this is off the top of my head but highest estimates might say 80% of autistics might also have ADHD -- not the same in reverse though). And I've also heard that ADHD tends to soften the autistic symptoms' appearance, like the impulsivity and shorter attention spans soften the rigidity of autism. But I still think about your hypothesis that ADHD in women often shows up as issues with emotional regulation!
I’m someone who has had a social anxiety diagnosis for decades now and CBT therapy had no effect on. I also have an ADHD diagnosis but no autism diagnosis. I score high on all the screenings (190 on RAADS, 40 on AQ). In your opinion is it worth while pursuing an official diagnosis?
I mean, it does seem quite likely you've got the overlap [AuDHD]! For an official diagnosis, my thought is more around practicality: do you need it for anything, and is that path available and affordable to you (e.g. can you get it through your insurance, can you get it near where you live, how long is the waitlist, or do you have to pursue private pay options?). If the practicalities weren't an issue, then to me it seems like you've got a likely enough case that you wouldn't be wasting your time!
Great article, Christine! Thank you for info dumping!!
I scored 144. 😊 As a kid I had those tiny flocked craft bears and I kept them lined up in a tiny wooden cradle. This was VERY IMPORTANT. Feeling like everyone else had a social script that I didn’t get describes my childhood. Even just interacting through writing feels hard. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a newsletter, blog post, instagram post, etc that resonated so strongly with me, yet I didn’t have the energy to compile a few sentences’ response. It has added to my sense of isolation many times. I often feel lonely, yet the work of finding friends I can truly connect with, plus finding time as a parent to hang out one on one, is all very difficult. Add job searching and I feel very ‘failure to launch’. I need a shirt that says ‘in my tired girl era’ except era is life, lol.
The things that felt VERY IMPORTANT as a kid…yes! I’m glad the article resonated, and that you mustered the energy to write such a thoughtful comment! Also, I wonder if other people tend to re-read their comments (which adds to the work and time!) as much as autistics? 😅 But i I feel that: the urge, the desire, to connect, but feeling overwhelmed or exhausted by the actual execution of it.
I have very much enjoyed your newsletter, and particularly this post. My son is autistic, but not obviously so, so it took time to get him diagnosed, but we pursued it because he was having problems in school. I started reading the book Is it Autism?, and this has made me wonder if I too am on the spectrum, especially since autism has a genetic component. I have lots of sensory issues, and was painfully shy until college when I basically forced myself to talk to people. I am definitely a Highly Sensitive Person, but not sure if I would meet the DSM criteria for autism. One reason is that I have very good executive functioning skills, especially with organizing and getting tasks done, sometimes to the detriment of the relationships involved. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study to see if people who are Highly Sensitive have autistic children. Like is being highly sensitive a step towards autism? Just thoughts I’ve been having lately and thought this would be a good place to share them.
Great question! You'll find different opinions about autism vs HSP (I've read various pieces on Medium where people argue either side about whether it's the same or different). I've come down on the opinion that HSP is definitely distinct from autism, though they're both forms of neurodivergence, so I think if we view pretty much all of life as being on a spectrum (whether we're talking about autism, anxiety, etc) where it's the severity and life-interruptingness of the traits that determine diagnosis...ie there's a threshold that must be met that "most" people don't meet... it makes a lot of sense that HSP folks might create an autistic kid!
That being said, I actually think that what you're describing about your executive functioning wouldn't disqualify you from autism! It sounds like you're saying you can get rigid (I say this in a value-neutral way but to match DSM wording) about task completion to the potential detriment of relationships, which is... a pretty autistic thing to do 😅
Happy to hear additional thoughts if you have them! Glad to hear from you!
Thank you so much for responding and answering my questions. I might need to do more digging of my own on HSP v. autism, but I didn't even think about the fact that I tend to always prioritize tasks over people (something I have to try hard not to do) would fit with the rigid thinking of autism. Thanks so much for your knowledge and willingness to be open and think about these kinds of connections.
I was usually given "pleasure to have in the class" and something like "I encourage her to speak up more" from teachers. When a child is not disruptive, the adults think everything is perfect. I'm pretty sure I was that girl moving around the playground, not really a part of relationships, but appearing to be, which worked for me. I also enjoyed being the "ball monitor", which meant I could stay inside by myself and record when kids borrowed and returned sports equipment during recess.
I thought I experienced a lot of anxiety but I recently read an email from Dr. Megan Anna Neff (I recommend their emails) and they talked about social dread vs. anxiety, and how dread is about feeling overwhelmed for example, sensory overwhelm, and how treating dread vs. anxiety is different. Now I think I have experienced a lifetime of social dread, with a dash of anxiety on the side.
I feel like parenting is at least twice as hard for me as it is for allistic people. Sometimes that makes me feel bad, but I'd like to remind myself that it means I'm working so much harder to make it work. And relax my jaw a little. I think I was "adulting" ok before we had kids (not great, but I was surviving), and then parenting completely rocked my world. I haven't worked at a "real job" since having kids and I cannot image how that could work, I just can't do both, not even part time. I do work from home but I'm self-employed, so I set the boundaries. I felt completely unprepared for how much harder parenting would be than I was told. I think it's the conflicting sensory needs that is the hardest in our family.
I've taken some of the online autism assessments (several times over the last year or 2 to compare) and always scored with results that say something like "most likely autistic". I wish it wasn't so expensive to get diagnosed here, or I would have probably done it already. I would tell someone else that self diagnosis is valid but it would still feel better to have it official.
P.S. I think numbers 2 and 3 have 5 dashes each.
Oh my gosh! I replied to you in my head like 5 different times and just realized it never made it to the computer screen. Meanwhile, I checked out the post from Dr. Neff that you were referring to (on a particularly social dread-full day) and found it fascinating! Like yes! Both dread and anxiety; check!
Your first paragraph also describes me except I didn't get lucky enough to be ball monitor 😅 but I love that that could work for you!
Glad to share (virtual) space with someone else who gets *extra* worn out from the demands of parenting. Yes to conflicting sensory needs (and the feeling of having to be "on" in a way that feels, well, boring a lot of the time; and not being able to regulate incoming stimulation). Having an outlet (work) that is relatively quiet, intellectually stimulating, and only requires that I "people" one person at a time has been immensely helpful, but I'm not sure how I'd survive a demanding 40hr/week job according to someone else's schedule. And. I hear you about official and how it feels almost totally cost-prohibitive. :(
Lastly! Hahahaha I'm not sure whether to be more embarrassed that I miscounted that dashes or more pleased that you knew exactly what I meant and cared enough to correct me, but honestly I think it's the second (and not just because that's the polite thing to say). Thanks for knowing what I meant! 🤣
I’ve been thinking a lot about dread lately, as we get closer to the end of the school year for our kids. I dread the lack of routine and solitude and what feels like huge sensory conflicts and the inevitable burnout I feel every summer. So I put a reminder in my todoist app, which I think I got from Dr. Neff: "I see you, routine disruption anxiety." My reminder to myself that I’m feeling out of sorts because I’m missing our routines.
I relate to so much of this, Anika. Thank you for voicing the fact that parenting feels so much harder as an autistic adult, and your reminder that we’re working harder! I need to get a job with more hours/better pay than the 3-4 shifts a month at the bookstore, and I’ve had meltdowns about it recently. The chances of me getting a remote job are high, so while that means I technically don’t need childcare, the thought(s) of adding yet more complexity to my summer is overwhelming.
Can I ask what you do to be self-employed? I’m desperate for ideas.
Well my work doesn’t pay much, so I’m not sure if I will be helpful. I have been selling printables on Etsy and my website. More recently I am designing and selling greeting cards, postcards and stickers wholesale (which is more successful so hopefully I have finally found something that is sustainable).
Excellent, excellent, excellent coverage of female autism, Christine. As a boy raised by women, it does not surprise me at all that I largely fit your description of autistic girls, especially as you described the middle school and high school years. So much is familiar--loner, afraid of being noticed, strong emotions/prone to meltdowns, didn't understand social behavior and conversation, terrible lifelong social anxiety, lived in my imagination/dissociation, focused intensely (obsessed) on certain things, feelings of overwhelm and depression, codependent, always wanting to please and appease, weak sense of self, target of bullies as kids sensed I was different, etc. Yet, interestingly, just as I have never fit in as neurotypical, it seems like I also don't completely fit as an autistic person. I don't fit the male autistic stereotype and do mostly fit your female description, but I'm male. It's like I can't win, can't fit no matter which way I turn. I know I'm different, but I will continue to dwell in a neverland of uncertainty about what/who exactly I am. Thankfully, it doesn't really matter anymore at my present age and stage, and I've long since accepted myself and even found a meaningful path in life. But wouldn't we all like to understand why we were always so different from everybody else? Your explanation takes me a lot farther in that understanding.
That makes so much sense about being raised in a female-dominated environment, so your experience turning out quite differently! I am happy for you that you have transcended the need and desire for labels and you can happily pursue your life path that's on its own unique course!
I am called out too. Notes from my kindergarten teacher report that “instead of joining in, Amy waits to be invited to join groups of children at play.” And I still think this is perfectly reasonable. And polite. 😃 Thank you for this piece! Any thoughts on how autism in girls might relate to ADHD, another dx that girls often aren’t assessed for in childhood?
Hahaha I consider that perfectly reasonable too! I can still watch groups of children and marvel at the way most of them seem to just *know* how to join in even when they don't know the others that well!
Well, I know the diagnostic overlap is quite strong (this is off the top of my head but highest estimates might say 80% of autistics might also have ADHD -- not the same in reverse though). And I've also heard that ADHD tends to soften the autistic symptoms' appearance, like the impulsivity and shorter attention spans soften the rigidity of autism. But I still think about your hypothesis that ADHD in women often shows up as issues with emotional regulation!
I’m someone who has had a social anxiety diagnosis for decades now and CBT therapy had no effect on. I also have an ADHD diagnosis but no autism diagnosis. I score high on all the screenings (190 on RAADS, 40 on AQ). In your opinion is it worth while pursuing an official diagnosis?
I mean, it does seem quite likely you've got the overlap [AuDHD]! For an official diagnosis, my thought is more around practicality: do you need it for anything, and is that path available and affordable to you (e.g. can you get it through your insurance, can you get it near where you live, how long is the waitlist, or do you have to pursue private pay options?). If the practicalities weren't an issue, then to me it seems like you've got a likely enough case that you wouldn't be wasting your time!
Great article, Christine! Thank you for info dumping!!
I scored 144. 😊 As a kid I had those tiny flocked craft bears and I kept them lined up in a tiny wooden cradle. This was VERY IMPORTANT. Feeling like everyone else had a social script that I didn’t get describes my childhood. Even just interacting through writing feels hard. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a newsletter, blog post, instagram post, etc that resonated so strongly with me, yet I didn’t have the energy to compile a few sentences’ response. It has added to my sense of isolation many times. I often feel lonely, yet the work of finding friends I can truly connect with, plus finding time as a parent to hang out one on one, is all very difficult. Add job searching and I feel very ‘failure to launch’. I need a shirt that says ‘in my tired girl era’ except era is life, lol.
The things that felt VERY IMPORTANT as a kid…yes! I’m glad the article resonated, and that you mustered the energy to write such a thoughtful comment! Also, I wonder if other people tend to re-read their comments (which adds to the work and time!) as much as autistics? 😅 But i I feel that: the urge, the desire, to connect, but feeling overwhelmed or exhausted by the actual execution of it.
I’m glad you’re here, connecting!!
Lolol.
“In my tired girl era*
*era =my entire life”
I have very much enjoyed your newsletter, and particularly this post. My son is autistic, but not obviously so, so it took time to get him diagnosed, but we pursued it because he was having problems in school. I started reading the book Is it Autism?, and this has made me wonder if I too am on the spectrum, especially since autism has a genetic component. I have lots of sensory issues, and was painfully shy until college when I basically forced myself to talk to people. I am definitely a Highly Sensitive Person, but not sure if I would meet the DSM criteria for autism. One reason is that I have very good executive functioning skills, especially with organizing and getting tasks done, sometimes to the detriment of the relationships involved. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study to see if people who are Highly Sensitive have autistic children. Like is being highly sensitive a step towards autism? Just thoughts I’ve been having lately and thought this would be a good place to share them.
Great question! You'll find different opinions about autism vs HSP (I've read various pieces on Medium where people argue either side about whether it's the same or different). I've come down on the opinion that HSP is definitely distinct from autism, though they're both forms of neurodivergence, so I think if we view pretty much all of life as being on a spectrum (whether we're talking about autism, anxiety, etc) where it's the severity and life-interruptingness of the traits that determine diagnosis...ie there's a threshold that must be met that "most" people don't meet... it makes a lot of sense that HSP folks might create an autistic kid!
That being said, I actually think that what you're describing about your executive functioning wouldn't disqualify you from autism! It sounds like you're saying you can get rigid (I say this in a value-neutral way but to match DSM wording) about task completion to the potential detriment of relationships, which is... a pretty autistic thing to do 😅
Happy to hear additional thoughts if you have them! Glad to hear from you!
Thank you so much for responding and answering my questions. I might need to do more digging of my own on HSP v. autism, but I didn't even think about the fact that I tend to always prioritize tasks over people (something I have to try hard not to do) would fit with the rigid thinking of autism. Thanks so much for your knowledge and willingness to be open and think about these kinds of connections.